In Edinburgh, as part of the development of our network, we consulted bus operators on that issue quite a lot. The premise is simplicity of approach, as far as what is or is not a restricted road is concerned. People are slowing down, and there are fewer crashes and lower emissions. Unfortunately, however, that is not the answer that we are getting from the reports. There are certainly CPT members, particularly in rural areas, who have voiced concerns that there would be an impact. Lamont, Johann (Glasgow) (Lab) In a subsequent submission, Police Scotland said that people, may not understand the evidence-based decisions behind our current deployment priorities nor accept that resources are finite.. From the peer-reviewed literature on the science of speed and kinetic energy, we know that for every 1mph reduction in average speed, there is a 6 per cent reduction in the number of collisions. The inspector sitting behind me just now is the unit commander for Edinburgh city and he works with the local policing teamsprimarily with community police teamsto enforce the 20mph zones. Yes. The figure in the financial memorandum is based on the cost of a typical national campaign. I know the area that you mean and I understand why you have concerns. Given the uncertainty about the emissions impact of the proposed 20mph speed limit, can the panel members set out why they think that the benefits outweigh concerns about air pollution? The Scottish Parliament examines what the Scottish Government is doing, makes new laws on devolved matters and debates the issues of the day. Prior to the disaggregation of councils in 1996, the previous authorities had a whole host of restricted roads, but now that the current local authorities have responsibility for them, because they have not had to deal with them, they will not have collated the information. We also think that it will go a long way towards building acceptance and understanding of, and increasing compliance with, the limits; that will be important for Edinburgh as we move forward. However, the committee also had to decide whether it agreed with the bills proposal to introduce a default 20mph speed limit on all restricted roads, and we could not accept that proposal. North Lanarkshire Council is still the only authority to have introduced the advisory 20mph measures throughout its full area. I accept that the bill is unlikely to progress today, but I will comment on a number of key areas. The category does not include A and B roads unless they have been restricted under order. It makes no difference to the child, community or family who lives on a street whether they are in a rural village or the centre of Edinburgh. Going back to a point that I made before, when we asked people how they would prefer 20mph speed limits to be enforced, 45 per cent said that they would prefer enforcement by signs only, 24 per cent preferred road humps, 14 per cent preferred speed cameras, 4 per cent preferred enforcement by traffic police, and 13 per cent said that there should be no enforcement and we should leave it to drivers to conform. I understand where you are coming from in that regardI live in a rural community myself. I heard Mark Ruskellwhose every effort on the bill I utterly commend, without reservationsay that the Welsh are changing the national speed limit. I return to my earlier point. A number of studies have come out recently, such as the Atkins study down south, all saying basically the same thing: a 20mph limit without changing the character of a road does not really change driver behaviour. As you have heard in evidence already, every 1mph reduction in speed means at least a 5 per cent reduction in the number of accidents. The city-wide order was prioritised to get it through, but, because its implementation across the whole city took us several years, what with the number of streets and signs that were involved, we had to create a second TRO for each phase to account for the fact that the street network changes over time. I do not have an answer to that. If we had more time and resources to do a more detailed assessment, I would hope that the guidance would identify other areas that we could open up and bring into full consideration, and placemaking is certainly one of those areas. As well as the strict casualty aspect of road safety, lowering the speed of traffic has huge benefits for wider aspects of road safety, including emissions, which I am sure Gavin Thomson will address. You attribute that comment to a BBC programme, and your paper has a link to that programme. I want to home in on that figure in order to be precise. Like previous speakers, we want to see some more detail, but I should say that, where we can, we already support existing 20mph zones that have been promoted by local authorities. Further consideration would need to be given to the process for, impact of and consequences of a nationwide default 20mph speed limit, including an assessment of Scotlands road network, before we could be sure that the bill would achieve its aim. In Edinburgh, the experience has been that the average speed is down and local support for the initiative is up. What they said was that they would choose where to enforce it, based on accident black spots. Do not expect to see the cameras suddenly switching into urban areas. In the unlikely event that you all look away when a question is asked, one of you will be nominated, so there is no hiding. Policy Memorandum Restricted Roads (20 mph Speed Limit) (Scotland) Bill, Explanatory Notes Restricted Roads (20 mph Speed Limit) (Scotland) Bill, Financial Memorandum Restricted Roads (20 mph Speed Limit) (Scotland) Bill, Statements on Legislative Competence Restricted Roads (20 mph Speed Limit) (Scotland) Bill, Delegated Powers Memorandum Restricted Roads (20 mph Speed Limit) (Scotland) Bill, Show Stage 1 - General principles content, https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/debates-and-questions/s5/rural-economy-and-connectivity/6-february-2019-11940#107931, https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/debates-and-questions/s5/rural-economy-and-connectivity/20-february-2019-11952#108062, https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/debates-and-questions/s5/rural-economy-and-connectivity/6-march-2019-11982#108397, https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/debates-and-questions/s5/rural-economy-and-connectivity/20-march-2019-12016#108732, https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/debates-and-questions/s5/meeting-of-the-parliament/13-june-2019-12183#110072, https://www.parliament.scot/chamber-and-committees/debates-and-questions/s5/meeting-of-the-parliament/13-june-2019-12183#110075, Official Report: what was said in Parliament, document prepared on behalf of Mark Ruskell MSP, bring a section or sections of a law thats already been passed, into force, give details of how a law will be applied, make changes to the law without a new Act having to be passed. Wouldnt that be nice? There is no reduction on the slow roads, some reduction on the medium-speed roads and a reduction of 3mph to 4mph on the faster roads. Thank you very much for giving us your time. Those decisions should be made locally. We are not just talking about restricted roads; they are responsible for a whole host of different roads. We would give that due consideration if the bill were passed. My Liberal Democrat colleagues and I want there to be fewer accidents and safer roads across the country. However, you tell us that camera enforcement is not possible because the cameras are not calibrated. Signs can come on to say Beware: there is a school hereor a hospital or whateverbut a change in the speed limit would be a negative. Before we go any further, I want to clarify something. Half a million pounds times 32 local authorities is 16 million. To a degree, there is an issue of timeliness and willingness in regard to looking at the guidance. On the issue of public awareness, the committee heard that a detailed, concerted campaign would be required to raise awareness of the proposed reduced speed limit, should the bill be passed. If we feel that our streets are safer, we are more likely to be out on those streets, we are more likely to cycle on those streets and we are more likely to allow our children to walk or cycle to school. You heard that from Ruth Jepson. I make it clear that I am here today because the ABD has not got anyone who could be here today. I am not dismissing your point, but that means that nearly 80 per cent do not have the data. The figures that we have are virtually zero anyway. Would an alternative approach be to streamline the system to make that easier to do now? We need to look at the roads and the types of settlements in Scotland, and build an understanding of what the costs would be in the implementation phase, rather than simply taking a figure and multiplying it by 20. You have managed to get everyone to look in the opposite direction, Stewart. We just say Oh, well. Police Scotland clearly advised the committee that speed limits should, in effect, be self-enforcing and seen to be appropriate by a significant majority of motorists. It has an existing budget, and the question is whether there is a case to go beyond that. It is about establishing something that I would say is not just a social consensus but an establishment consensus, under which people know that 20mph is the legal limit and that if they get caught breaking it, they will face a restriction by way of a course or a fixed-penalty notice. SCOTS would look for the time and resources to undertake more detailed assessment. A Police Force that is willing to enforceThis may seem obvious, and whilst police are becoming far more supportive of 20mph limits and their enforcement, it is clear that in some forces there is a reluctance to enforce. However, in every village in Scotland, every road and lane with street lighting will have to have signage both in and out. Does road safety include the fears of the 75-year-old who normally walks to the shops once or twice a week but decides that the speed of traffic is such that they do not think they can get safely across the road any more? Can I pinpoint exactly what the speed reduction will be in 10 years time? However, there are roads that are designed in that way, such as Easter Road, which I walk every other day, but where people go at excessive speeds. I point the member to what Stewart Stevenson said about average speed. Okay. Given what he has just said, does he agree that it is astonishing that people, including the cabinet secretary, say that they do not know the total length of such roads? The Faculty of Public Health in Scotland raised that issue in its submission. The question arises again of whether that is the right limit in the right place, if peoples impression is that it is a road on which they would be able to go faster. Only a new national default 20mph limit will deliver those benefits for all. That brings the cost into perspective. Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con) I believe that the situation is gradually improving, and it has not been affected by the 20mph limit. Those areas are in my rural community and your rural communitiesthey are not exclusively in the centre of Edinburgh and other cities. Thats the law, but folk just arent adhering to it. Surely the statistics are alarming. That undermines confidence in speed limits and enforcement. The organisation has been doing more detailed work with local authorities, and it has gone beyond where we have got to with the policy and the financial memorandum. However, we do not know what the costs of the bill would be, and we think that they have been significantly underestimated. Our costings are accurate. Paterson, Gil (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) Corry, Maurice (West Scotland) (Con) That poll had a single question. Thank you for that. A 30mph road through a village is not affected, but every road and lane off that road would be a restricted road. That is another option. So, already there may be a question over whether more emphasis should be placed on tackling speeding in residential areas, even if the speed limit stays at 30mph. Some drivers already do that, so the point about introducing a speed limit is to shift the behaviour of the other drivers. Instead, we would just let them degrade over time. I am interested in the people who significantly exceed the speed limit. Our streets have been taken over by the car and the car has become king. Having fewer accidents reduces the associated health costs. The SPICe briefing that we have been given says: Detailed research conducted for the Corporation of the City of London concluded that exhaust emissions are broadly similar with either a 30mph limit or a 20mph limit. I do not wish to put words in Mike Rumbless mouth, but what he said sounded like an argument not to roll out the policy at all, because there will be a very small change in actual speeds: they will still be just over 20mph. We have 20mph speed limits in Edinburgh. On a journey of several miles in which somebody is driving a consistent 20mph rather than 30mph, that would moderately affect the overall journey time and the cost. Would the average speed in those areas not be higher? One of the committees recommendations was that it, supports the aim of seeking to widen the implementation of 20mph zones in Scotland with the objective of reducing death and serious injuries on roads., In reply to a question that I asked the cabinet secretary during our evidence session with him, he said that 20mph limits should be introduced, where there is good evidence that they should be introduced,. Maybe it will not, but I agree that speed kills. I return to the figure that most people driving on a 30mph road are breaking the lawthey drive at more than 30mph. The number of people who considered traffic speeds in their local area to be safe improved, the proportion of children who cycled to school increased from 4 per cent to 12 per cent, and overall support for the 20mph speed limit increased from 68 per cent to 79 per cent. A 20mph speed limit does not make much difference to safetythere is no huge increase in safetybecause the roads that are involved were often safe before the limit was reduced. As I said, when I was the Minister for Public Health, the average cost of a six-week campaign was about 500,000. If we make the twentys plenty initiative national, could there be a cultural change in attitude over the years about driving at 20mph rather than 30mph? People wear headphones in 30mph zones as well, but you are saying that it is a particular problem in 20mph zones. Is there an example of a child who was killed in which it can be claimed that, if the speed limit had been 20mph, the child would have survived? It would just be slightly different because the baseline would change in certain areas. This was incorporated within previous 2001 guidance for Scotland only [2]. In a driving context, that is the phenomenon whereby, if someone drives consistently at the same speed all the time, they become desensitised to the speed that they are driving at. Another argument against the bill involves questions over the robustness of the financial memorandum. I never saw a sign.. I welcome Mark Ruskell; Malachy Clarke, Mr Ruskells researcher; Andrew Mylne, head of the Scottish Parliaments non-Government bills unit; and Claudia Bennett, from the office of the solicitor to the Scottish Parliament. I and others argue that the most important contribution to safety and to preventing injury and death on our roads has come from the introduction of compulsory seat belts, which made everybody feel safer. I want to deal with the numbers question before my substantive question. To the driver, that road would appear to have a higher speed limit, but it is 30mph for a very good reason, which is that there are a lot of side streets and heavy traffic. In the written evidence, we have seen suggestions that the liveability of our neighbourhoods and streets would increase with 20mph limits. Companies will feed that into their training and awareness so that the professional drivers are aware, and they will expect drivers to adhere to speed limits. Appropriate signingIn order that drivers are aware of the changed speed limit then the appropriate signage must be provided. Part of the reason for the bill is the fact that there is criticism of the current processthe timescales, the cost and so on. People who drive along see what are sometimes temporary, part-time limits that apply during the day when schools come out, ordepending on the areamore permanent 20mph limits. We have had a look at this and we cannot find any evidence to say that there is a massive difference in emissions. We already know the impact of 20mph zones. I am pleased that he did not repeat that ridiculous charge today, and I contrast his response with the measured response that we have just heard from my fellow committee member John Finnie. We are slightly ahead of schedule, and I think that one of the cabinet secretarys officials is due to turn up shortly. Healthier people, less traffic and less pollution is a great ambition that we would all like to see being fulfilled. Therefore, exceeding 20mph would be illegal when two years ago 30mph was perfectly legal. This approach makes a very beneficial change in the cohesiveness of communities and how people feel about them; indeed, the Appleyard research quite clearly shows that increased traffic leads to reduced communication between neighbours and less of that collective community feeling. I see nodding heads, so I do not think that I need a further response. In the scenario of driving through Edinburgh at 3 oclock in the morning with no other cars about and nobody walking about, is it fair that the driver should be restricted to 20mph? There are some restricted roads that we would not want to be 20mph zones and there are roads that are not restricted that we might want to have as 20mph roads. The TSRGD has had numerous changes over the years. Paragraph 3 on page 3 states: There was a general agreement that greater levels of road traffic policing results in lower numbers of collisions and injuries and traffic violations.. This intervention is not the only thing that we need to do to improve physical activity and health in Scotland, but, given that we are building pedestrianised areas and segregated routes, it will help by making people think that it is safe to use themit will improve the effectiveness of some of those other schemes. My favourite comment was someone saying, My car doesnt go at 20mph. All cars go at 20mph. In answering that question on the likelihood of increasing compliance through an awareness campaign, what evidence do you haveother than anecdotal evidenceto counter that claim regarding the level of compliance? Official Government statistics show that in 2021, 87% of drivers broke 20mph speed limits. We are seeing a cultural shift here, anyway, where drivers and communities are becoming more aware of 20 and are waking up to the benefits. When do speed limits apply to my vehicle? New driving law: SNP to introduce new 20mph speed limit restrictions in As I said, there is a piecemeal approach in Scotland just now. Although councils may choose to introduce 20mph zones in their areas, many choose not to do so, even when there is clear demand for that and evidence in support of it. The issue for the police is that they have limited resources: they do not have officers to stand on every single street corner on 30mph roads with speed cameras to enforce the limit. Official Government statistics show that in 2021, 87% of drivers broke 20mph speed limits. I note the findings of the committee; I am sure that the committees decision was a difficult one to reach, which highlights the complex nature of the matter. I will answer that point briefly, and this is also an answer to Mr Stevensons point. It applies not only to urban areas but to rural areas. If the Government is truly convinced that the approach set out in the bill is not the best way to achieve the aim of moving towards a speed limit of 20mph in residential areas, it needs to come up with alternatives, because the current system is failing our communities. Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) The Clyde Gateway, which is a new dual carriageway in my area, is a big sweeping road that looks and feels as if it should have a 40mph or 50mph limit, but its limit is 30mph. I ask you to accept that that is the reality. Inconclusive is the word of the day. Then carwow is the place to go. The link can be seenif the kinetic energy is reduced, the likelihood is that the number of injuries is reduced. Can you explain why you think the 20mph limit on restricted roads is the right approach and whether, out of all those options, that is the preference of local authorities? A Bill is a proposed Act of the Scottish Parliament. Unfortunately, no magic figure exists. The 20mph speed limit should reduce emissions. Is evidence available that can help us? Yes, you can. If we look at it that way, the proposal represents an additional cost, but we also need to consider the benefits and the savings to communities. Are you familiar with that concept? Surely roads with 20mph limits and roads with 30mph limits are both dangerous for pedestrians. That is part of a growing shift. I thank all the panel members for their written submissions and their evidence today. First of all, it has 20mph speed awareness courses, and when it puts people on such a course, the administrative fee that it gets from attendees helps to pay for the enforcement process. I want to challenge Mark Ruskells response, because it is contrary to the information that we have in the SPICe briefing about enforcement. It is quite happy with what it has. We looked at the average reduction and then at people who were going over 24mph. It is worth reminding ourselves of the evidence we heard that the introduction of a 20mph zone where the limit had previously been 30mph appears to result in only a 1mph reduction in average speeds. There is a national inconsistency across Scotland in regard to 20mph roll-outs. Secondly, a method of self-enforcement is a road layout that conveys a signal to the driver that there is more risk and greater danger. Statistically, there is no difference between the areas around schools and other areas. Indeed, convener, and it is on that very point. I do not understand that and would appreciate an explanation. The big question is, where will that money come from? Having a 20mph limit is one of the things that is done, although it is never done in isolation, which makes it a little hard to quantify the difference that it makes to active travel. Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) As yet, though, we have not done any economic analysis of that. We are definitely doing work on that; that is one of the issues that we are looking at. There is a considerable cost to that and the council has made an estimate of the cost. West Midlands Police provide a really good example, which I cited in my written submission. I ask everyone to please stop the rudeness that is happening during the debate. Solutions can be taken forward through collaborative working with our partners in local authorities. It would restrict local authorities flexibility to devise 20mph limits that they consider to be appropriate in their areas. I want to home in on what is going on here. We have to think about the kinetic energy and the impact. The Department for Transport has commissioned a three-year, 715,000 study on the effectiveness of 20mph zones. I do not know if that changes peoples perceptions. Do you think that that will happen in this case? You said that about 21 per cent of local authorities already have the data to hand. I will be honest: as I said previously, I am not 100 per cent convinced either way. Lyle, Richard (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP)
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