Your ringing defense of, e.g., the right of dudes to say hey pretty lady! to direct reports (as long as they are pure of heart and arent like, SEXIST sexist) because free speech is falling a little flat. +1 my boss trash-talks my coworker to me by Alison Green on May 8, 2019 A reader writes: I graduated college last May, and I am new to the corporate world, so your podcast has helped me learn how to deal with many workplace issues that I have encountered. Self care and ideas to help you live a healthier, happier life. Im trying to explain why I think opinion divides. It actually worked really well for us, with him managing the team and schedule while I focused on the technical aspects. Im glad they were at least open to looking into things? Yeah, and given that people regularly use freak as a slur toward transgender people and rarely toward drivers caused accidents, that seems like a bit of a stretch. Im doing the opposite, Im saying Bruce was Hannah and Caitlyn is Miley. Any help you can give clever redditors? In Europe you cant discipline employee based on this. Thank you for articulating this! Now theyve moved them to the lull when all thats happening is baseball. The higher-ups in our company regularly have private meetings, which are usually very hush-hush behind closed doors. I really dont understand how anyone thinks that its more harmful to prohibit people from espousing hate/bigoted speech at work than it is to force people who are deeply affected by that speech to hear it at work. what if i dont actually hate you? The racial tensions, prejudices and inequalities that still exist are largely black vs white (although were doing a great job of also being super racist against Muslims now too, so theres that I guess). And I just want to be totally clear here, because your comment didnt really address it you believe that people should be allowed to say openly racist things at work without consequences? As you walk into the conference room, the conversation comes to a halt, and all of a sudden everyone in the room needs a cup of coffee or a trip to the restroom. Second, since your boss is apparently misjudging your performance based on inaccurateinformation, yes, correct the record. I'm not trying to involve my bosses but I'm also tired of overhearing shit from them. State and local laws can differ. Yes. Here are some signs that might mean coworkers are discussing you and how to deal with them: 1. He gave lots of notice before retirement. I'm not a fan of kabuki vs direct communication. The other issue is where do you draw the line between hateful/bigoted with not hateful/bigoted? Well, you dont have to be transgender to be offended by the comments or complain about them. Send it to alison@askamanager.org. Sadly Im sure the HR person they were talking to wasnt even phased by the comments. Freedom of speech does not mean you get to say anything anywhere. How is the OP endangering their colleagues career? These incidents dont happen in a vacuum and shouldnt be treated as if they do. The odds that anyone involved will ever have to speak to Caitlyn Jenner face to face are low. I was complaining about her work ethic, and the coworker I was complaining to had the same complaints. However, they are not the ONLY courageous, brave people out there. People here are generally quite civil.). A co-worker recently quit because of healthissues. I would assume an award means something to the person who wins it. If I get divorced and change my last name back to my maiden name (or a random name), you cant continue calling me my married name because you disagree with my divorce. NB that if the same conversation had simply expressed that they didnt think Caitlyn should have won the award, without saying freak or otherwise implying being transgender was bad (just that it didnt rise to the level of this award), my answer would be totally different. It doesnt come down to the opinion of the person investigating; if sued, a court would determine whether most reasonable people would find it offensive or not. But once this employee files a case for unfair dismissal, i highly doubt employer would win it. The situation in the OP didnt come up as a part of the workday; it was someone spouting off about something they read on the internet about something that happened on TV. This also was the position in the post about the HR staff member being terminated for theft at another job. What do you do when you overhear a conversation that involves you? Again, if someone identifies as a TERF (or a white supremacist, or a person who finds homosexuals troubling or problematic, etc), its up to them to refrain from having conversations about those topics at work. I want to comment on a lot that you said, but Ill stick to this: You do not have freedom of speech at work. What LBK said about Caitlyn always being a woman, so, yes, SHE was in the Olympics. If they love your work and theyre reasonable people, you might have a decent shot at just laying out the problem and asking about working at home a few days a week. Do you think working from home or asking to explore other options is ok given that Ive been with the organization for less than a year? But in being accepting toward trans people we are supposed to accept- or pretend to accept- certain things as facts. She was bashing Caitlyn in particular, and bashing her based on this specific award situation that became a meme. Trust me. I had been a department #2 for the past few years, so this was a step up on the career ladder. Most likely, the coworker will be brought in for a conversation with HR, which will include a chance to tell their side of the story, before being told that they need to be careful when talking about heated topics in the office. This is especially true when that opinion is hate speech. If I overheard someone making discriminatory comments at work (and oh buddy, I hear it daily! Ive spent most of my career in government workplaces where discussion of politics, religion, and other potentially hot button issues were defacto forbidden because of the field I work in and the potential controversial nature of those topics especially as perceived by the public. They like getting people riled up, they live for the chance to debate people oh, sorry, the chance to engage in an intelligent, spirited discussion with people of opposing viewpoints. It makes them feel powerful and smart and important. Not sure about Pandora. the worst part about it is that at the end of the day, they dont even care about trying to make the work environment more pleasant, prevent or resolve conflicts, or make sure people are free from harassment. who doesnt like fried chicken? You just dont. You dont want to end up starting another piece of gossip about the other person, too. Stories that matter to you. My position was originally posted because she thought this would happen sooner, but unfortunate events happened to in regard to her pregnancy.. I agree! HR then talks to the person who made the comments to find out what she said and the context. Over time, my head stopped swiveling every time someone came by, but for writing, it is the worst :/, Personally, I would: Its an insult people use when they find someone icky, and often has a sexual connotation. Assess how much of a problem the inappropriate comment . What are you advocating for here, exactly? Its hate speech. Reddit, Inc. 2023. They couldve both felt the same way and they have that right. Your being transgender is a different thing than Jenner. News, Politics, Culture, Life, Entertainment, and more. He was the director of a small government utility for 30+ years. Within two weeks, this person had convinced everyone that she would be the last person to put in charge. Should my resume label my internships as internships? Period. The oppression Olympics are a game everyone loses. Then STFU about it, especially in the workplace. Encourage employees to maintain work-related conversations, Replace Negative Gossip with Positive Gossip. I dont think well ever reach a point where these discussions dont happen here, because the mix of people here is always changing. Sometimes, employees are afraid to talk to a superior about an issue they are facing. Cheesecake, I summarized/tried to quote without backreading (lol) your comment in which you used her as the butt of a joke. And if your employer has the same corporate policy as the OPs employer does, you should keep that opinion to yourself while at work. Is it possible that by co-lead, they meant that youd be helping to run the department as Janes second-in-command? Did it make them think differently of you in a negative way? Search, watch, and cook every single Tasty recipe and video ever - all in one place! Its how racist, sexist and other brands of comments that prejudice oppressed minorities have always been treated and no, no context is needed. If I dont think that gender is something one decides on and can change I am still supposed to pretend I believe those things to be true. Now, if theyd said the initial part and instead of talking about a freak just said they thought the other person should have gotten it insteadI dont think thered really be anything to discuss. I see a lot of people talking about how someone decides to be offended, but youve hit the nail on the head no one gets to decide whether or not something hurts. I have to go over the usual aids just in case though. so every criminal law could be interpreted as a limitation to your freedom of speech. The action you just performed triggered the security solution. She and I were friendly enough, I always thought she was pleasant and we exchanged small talk and work-related talk when needed. (High performers want towork with other high performers, and you can involve your great staff members in helping to woo candidates you're really interested in.). *every* opinion, no matter how innocuous, is offensive to someone. I feel the same way when people are outraged that they get in trouble for using the n-word. supervisor that they actually said that, then call your coworker on lying. If you are lucky, you might overhear a thing or two about you. The problem with headphones is that it gets uncomfortable using them all day. 1. i *feel* hated when exposed to this persons opinion. I unfriended someone on FB over this and he messaged me and continued to argue and STILL used male pronouns and STILL did not understand the issue. TLDR; overheard fellow supervisors talking crap, what should I say if I catch them unawares talking smack about me again?? Some feminists find it extremely problematic and some religious groups find it against their beliefs.. While were on the subject of maturity, I think its a lot more mature to just not say hateful, bigoted things in the first place than to expect others to give an undue level of respect and patience to those making the comments (although I certainly try to when I hear them, but I dont feel obligated to by any means). Intent is not provable; action is, and its action that gets addressed with discipline. If you love your job but can't deal with your boss gossiping about you (whether what they're saying is true or not), find out about opportunities within other departments. How to Tactfully Handle People Talking Behind Your Back at Work - Part 1 Second man can still report the comment, even if he laughed at the time. Empathy, people, its a really basic human skill. I havent researched this at all, but based on the communities I travel in, its OK to use the Miley-as-Hannah naming convention for drag queens who are performing as X but live their daily lives as Y (and switch to she for the show or when speaking about drag queen persona, and then use he for other aspects of that person) but never OK to use the Miley-as-Hannah analogy for trans people. The other day we were discussing GoT in the office and one of the colleagues said when Stanis decided to CENSORED BECAUSE SPOILER, he was thinking if he would do the same for the greater good. They can start gossiping when they experience a challenge in executing their duties and no one seems to take the blame. OP said: The co-manager is planning to start a family within the next year and move on. You dont want to end up starting another piece of gossip about the other person, too. You may not have called anyone a freak, but you did use Bruce Jenner as part of a joke on a comment thread a few weeks ago (and you also reminded everyone of that comment). So my perception of that manager has changed greatly and I no longer view her as management. I took charge, but too gently, and when we hired a new operations manager, I was informed that I was supposed to be co-whatever with the existing employee, and that we were on the same level. Are you questioning this because it is about a transgender issue or because this was a comment about a celebrety instead of a co-worker? My office mates are aware of some of these things and are very courteous and supportive, though the lack of privacy and quiet is still a constant struggle for me. Ive avoided talking about Caitlyn at work because I know there are people who would Jesus all over it and I cant bear to listen to that claptrap. I overheard a group of older coworkers discussing Caitlyn Jenner the other day, and while they didnt say anything as overtly mean as freak, they kept referring to her as Bruce and he/him. As a trans person myself, this bothers me, but at the same time I dont think its quite appropriate to give these people a lesson on trans politics in the workplace. One very confused gentlemen who was stripping naked, trying to get out of bed (very unsteady) and constantly unhooking his mediport ALL night long. Bravery or courage shouldnt be a competition. One is an opinion, the other is antagonistic. Do what works for you]. Lots of comments, but I am going to go way out there and disagree with AAM and most of you ;). I Overheard My Coworkers Talking About Me Posted by: Rosalinda | April 11, 2017 at 5:27 am Comments are closed When you've got something confidential to say, find a private setting. When youve got something confidential to say, find a private setting. with all of the above said, if someone really wants to be called a different pronoun than their biological sex, okay, i can do that. @codenoir Regardless of what they "want", managing their employees is a basic part of their job Good approach. In the meantime there might be some additional authority given to the second in command, but not necessarily. And even if we dont agree with their stance in life they have that right to believe whatever they want. I mean, did Prince becoming the man-formerly-known-as-Prince really stop people from calling him Prince? GOT spoilers! The role is in a department I have never worked before so I know I ask more questions than most and I'm not as speedy as I could be. If its at work, work policies apply.
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